Loyalty, Greed, Winning, and Re-Signing: Part 1

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tonger
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Loyalty, Greed, Winning, and Re-Signing: Part 1

Post by tonger »

Loyalty, Greed, Winning, and Re-Signing: Part 1
Re-signing risk is one of the biggest swing factors in the game, and from my perspective as a new GM, one of the things that's been hardest things to figure out. Whether a player re-signs or not has a huge impact on a team’s future and that player’s value, and getting any sort of insight into which data points can "predict" whether a player 1/ offers to re-sign with their team, and 2/ if not, whether they still end up re-signing with their team after testing the open market would be hugely beneficial.

The goal of this analysis is to find any patterns in whether or not a player offers to re-sign, and if so, whether that offer is “reasonable” (that is, accepted). Potential learnings from this analysis could be applied to determining a player’s value to the team and how to handle the player - e.g. if you believe a player is unlikely to offer to re-sign, or unlikely to give a reasonable re-signing offer, then maybe it’s better to trade that player before the deadline. This is Part 1 in the analysis, in which I'll share the metadata I gathered and the first set of high-level takeaways. Hopefully this isn't a topic that's been drilled to death and that the takeaways here are somewhat novel and educational.

Dataset:
I (manually) pulled down the following data for each “desirable” FA in this class (50 total players), with “desirable” loosely defined as a player who would sign for the MLE or above.
- The “tier” of that player, separated into: 1/ Superstar - Carmelo Anthony, Rashad McCants; 2/ Star - Darko Milicic, Deron Williams; 3/ Strong role player - Kris Humphries, Elton Brand; 4/MLE talent - David Lee, Joe Johnson
- Whether the player offered to re-sign - 23 did, 27 did not
- If the player offered to re-sign, whether that re-signing offer was accepted - 15 were, 8 were not
- If the player offered to re-sign and that re-signing offer was denied, whether that player re-signed with the same team - 4 same team, 4 different team
- “Loyalty” score
- “Play for winner” score
- Years with current team
- Overall years of experience
- Age
- Career Championships
- Team’s prior season record
- Team’s all time record
- Team’s all time championships

Note that because I pulled this data manually, I’m bound to have missed a player or two.

Initial Takeaways
I know some of you have stats/analytics degrees and can do two-sided T tests in your sleep and will probably pick apart everything I’m writing below. I’ve forgotten all that shit and mostly just use Excel. Pulling this dataset together was also a pain in the ass so I just wanted to get this initial set of very simplistic takeaways out the door.
A player’s Greed rating seems to be most correlated with whether or not a player stays with their existing team
  • The 23 players who offered to re-sign had an average Greed rating of 51
  • The 27 players who did NOT offer to re-sign had an average Greed rating of 58
  • The 15 players whose re-signing offers were accepted had average Greed ratings of 49
  • The 8 players whose re-signing offers were NOT accepted had average Greed ratings of 56
At first glance, a player’s loyalty score in independence isn’t a strong predictor of whether the player offers to re-sign or ends up re-signing
  • The 23 players who offered to re-sign had an average Loyalty rating of 47
  • The 27 players who did NOT offer to re-sign also had an average Loyalty rating of 47
  • The 36 players who ended up re-signing with the same team had an average Loyalty rating of 47
  • The 14 players who signed with new teams had an average loyalty rating of 46
At first glance, a player’s “play for winner” rating and whether a player’s team wins a lot or not doesn't seem to impact re-signing
  • Players for whom winning is important (>50) and offered to re-sign (13 players): Average team wins of 36
  • Players for whom winning is important (>50) and didn’t offer to re-sign (13 players): Average team wins of 43
  • Players for whom winning isn’t important (<50) and offered to re-sign (10 players): Average team wins of 43
  • Players for whom winning isn’t important (<50) and didn’t offer to re-sign (14 players): Average team wins of 42
I'm sure there are deeper predictive patterns that will come out with more analysis - these are just the initial takeaways.

Follow ups
In part 2, I’ll aim to dive deeper into re-signing offers and correlation with:
  • The player’s “play for winner” rating and the team’s “winning pedigree” (their historical win record and number of championships)
  • The player’s loyalty rating and how long they’ve been with the team
  • Whether behaviors change as players get older or win championships
Other ideas welcome!

Let me know if any feedback y’all, and thanks for reading. First piece of content!
Last edited by tonger on April 18th, 2024, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jwoo
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Post by jwoo »

This is sick even though i have no idea if we learned anything lol
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tonger
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Post by tonger »

jwoo wrote: April 17th, 2024, 11:09 pm This is sick even though i have no idea if we learned anything lol
My learning so far is: don't read too much into the player ratings... if at all. Hopefully there's something more predictive under the surface
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Joe
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Post by Joe »

Tonger bout to get that n00b bonus plus frenzy plus 100 posts…this is going to be worth like 4 supercamps
"It's great to see the Celtics doing well again, 'cause that was so much fun in my day to go to the Boston Garden and get spit at, get things thrown at you and talk about your mom. It sounds like dinner at Kenny Smith's house."
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Merv
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Post by Merv »

This definitely took a lot of time! Interesting stuff
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The Transfer Portal
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Post by The Transfer Portal »

Great idea!
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SoNicks
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Post by SoNicks »

Tongers got the stuff
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Matt
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Post by Matt »

This is awesome
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Joe
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Post by Joe »

One piece of this to consider next time @tonger - each team has a "win rating" that's recalculated every season (I don't know what exactly goes into the formula), and I believe that's what's factored into the "play for winner" part of the re-signing equation. Still not sure how it factors in, but thats for you to find out
"It's great to see the Celtics doing well again, 'cause that was so much fun in my day to go to the Boston Garden and get spit at, get things thrown at you and talk about your mom. It sounds like dinner at Kenny Smith's house."
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tonger
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Post by tonger »

Joe wrote: April 25th, 2024, 11:47 am One piece of this to consider next time @tonger - each team has a "win rating" that's recalculated every season (I don't know what exactly goes into the formula), and I believe that's what's factored into the "play for winner" part of the re-signing equation. Still not sure how it factors in, but thats for you to find out
Nice. Is that stated somewhere or a hidden rating?

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