FAILED - Proposal for SLN Job Term Limits

[GX.]

I originally voted yes but shouldve read a little closer and not while I was sitting in a meeting. I think the intent here is good but Im not in favor of random job assignments and I think we can brainstorm new jobs to give more people the opportunity to earn RP/engagement.

In the same boat as jordo here, voted yes originally but after hearing some dissenting opinions i understand the hesitancy specifically with random assignment of jobs. As someone who had a short term stint as a MOD for BSC i can attest that it was something i thoroughly wish was still present because it inherently made me more active and engaged with the league.

Promoting league engagement via MOD position rotations should promote wider league activity which i believe was the intended goal of this proposal. The basis for this change is valid imo but with some tweaks mentioned before i.e. waitlist for jobs to ensure the proceeding MOD is willing and able to do the position could make this proposal a home run.

Lastly i do think all the moderators for all positions have done a bang up job and i appreciate the work y'all have put in over the years, but rotating some of these positions to people who are eager to hold them seems like a overall positive to me

[Jesse]

Also…maybe worth saying, maybe not…

A lot of these proposals are at least tangentially related to the RP system which I understand is frustrating to some. I get that some of us (mostly me?) can come off as fucking derpy and controlling when it comes to the “inflation” boogeyman and the RP rules. Totally get how the “trust me, this is what is best” response can wear thin in certain respects.

I will say that the league I started 15 years ago (!) - which some our friends here saw - had almost ALL of the rules that have been recently proposed. We had no RP trade cap or gross RP cap, we had rotating jobs and no consistency from article graders, which was then became so controversial that the simmer had to take over, we even had a luxury tax system that penalized the rich! Which was a proposal I saw on the boards yesterday. The system sucked over time. The league got to a point where it was impossible to win with a guard who didn’t have at least A- outside or a big with at least A- boards.

Many of the rules that seem arbitrary or silly are meant to be features not bugs. I am sure there are still many problems with them as they currently stand, but for the most part they have been thought out. And a lot of the proposed changes are exactly what we were running away from. So that may explain some of the “old man yells at cloud” nerdy tone you may hear from me at times.

[Matt]

Im just trying to provide a pathway for people to rotate in and out of jobs and make sure that no GM has the right to hold their position in purpituity.

Definitely think your proposal solves this - but I don't understand why this is a problem that needs to be solved. I think if people want to get involved for the sake of getting involved, that opportunity is likely to continue to present itself (e.g., I helped out with organizing the BBB rewards without any expectation of compensation). The only "why"s that make sense to me are that the RP compensation provides an unfair advantage or because people aren't doing their job well enough - or some third reason that I'm not thinking of (please tell me if this is the case!)

cuz at least 11 people want a job and their is absolutely no avenue to get one. Weve had i think only 5 positions open up in 2Yr+

But why do they want a job. Most people in the world want jobs because they get compensated for it. If we get to the root of the problem, we can then come up with the best way to solve it. If 11 people want a job and they can't have one, my assumption is that they want the pathway to RP that other people have. I think there are other ways to fix this (as I mentioned, decrease RP compensation for jobs, or as Jesse mentioned, come up with new jobs), both of which solve that problem without introducing others.

[Clintón]

The league got to a point where it was impossible to win with a guard who didn’t have at least A- outside or a big with at least A- boards.

Not to be that guy but uhm…

[mantypas/CavsCzar]

I initially voted yes, mostly cuz I've got a huge backlog of HOF write ups and scoring I could use help with lol. the counterpoints to the randomly assigning folks things and learning roles make sense. Not all jobs are created equally, but as a historian, nick taught me that one quite fast , that one could certainly be taught pretty easily (not to say its easy, its annoying work)

[Tyler]

I actually just thought of an idea, haven't fully thought it through but

what if we assigned every GM that wants a job to a specific job committee, that committee then decides who fills that job slot(s) each year so you'd have new and old people on the committee and each GM would have the same chance of earning the RP. There have been several times where I could have used a pinch hitter for draft mod but didn't want to relieve my role permanently. This would allow a fair flow of RP without compromising the "institutional information" of the role

[Clintón]

Okay why are people with jobs not open to bringing on others in the league to learn said jobs?

I wanna believe that a lot of this is about the grading system. The fact that its held down by O6 makes it seem more sheisty. Whether it is or isnt is always up for debate.

[Matt]

The fact that its held down by O6 makes it seem more sheisty.

Can you explain this to me? Why is O6 involvement inherently sketchy? What are the specific things that have happened that you've witnessed that make you inherently distrust the six of us?

[jwoo]

Okay why are people with jobs not open to bringing on others in the league to learn said jobs?

I wanna believe that a lot of this is about the grading system. The fact that its held down by O6 makes it seem more sheisty. Whether it is or isnt is always up for debate.

Something I proposed to Joe separate of this was that it might be a good idea to just have one additional person sit on the grading board and help with that process — I obviously don't think anyone is doing anything untoward, so let me make that super clear — but it does help whatever perception there is around one group of people controlling the entire flow of RP. I totally get why it's a bad idea to replace the graders (who know what they are doing and have a process) but if this is what one of the main gripes is, I think that is a pretty simple solve

[Jesse]

And last thing that I am sure I will regret sending before I close this freaking browser after the world’s longest shit…

Can we please, for the love of Boban, stop with the O6 conspiracy shit! It is so god damn annoying. The only thing I know that is sheisty is JOE BURROW. The 6 of us all started this league because we loved sims, discovered issues over time with how our old league operated, and wanted to show this hobby to our friends. We each brought our friends into the league and tried to help them get adjusted to the league…spending a lot of time trying to pass on this deep and nerdy love.

Now whenever we push back on a change that would start making sln feel like our old league, it is met with so much consternation and controversy, it gets annoying. Many of the rules-related posts all have at least an implicit nod towards the O6 structuring incentives, rules or roles in a way that is unfair. Yes, i get forwarded all of your texts complaining about us. Fuck you! As if it needs to be said…We are not trying to control RP so we alone can benefit. There is no preferential treatment.

Also, like, I know at least like 15-16 of you personally. I know many of you…personally!!!… better than I know Matt, Joe, Derek or nav! If the “o6” all agree on something, it’s not about some personal preference, it’s probably because we saw whatever we are talking about happen already and frankly have a more informed perspective than you. Get over yourself.

Okay bye.