HC (Penalty) - Chicago Bulls and New York Knicks

[bobby]

Wow that’s not so bad at all considering the original penalty. I’d bet that some GMs who don’t feel comfortable airing their honest thoughts on this matter would agree that getting a slap on the wrist because you’re getting fucked with work sets a tough precedent

[Jordo]

basically buying out a guy for no RP, this feels very light compared to the original punishment

And I don’t wanna see this happen to anyone fwiw but I feel like we need to set a precedent and just stick to it.

[mantypas/CavsCzar]

I was HCed back in November and ashes undid one of my leftover signings in an oversight when I was drunk at my bday dinner too late to make any changes, so I have nothing to say one way or another

[Nav]

Hey guys, not trying to create any issues or anything. As a few of the guys know, work + life have been insanely busy outside of SLN so haven’t been focused on this as much as I should have. Definitely not trying to set a bad precedent. If it makes things easier I’m happy to pay to buy JR’s deal out instead of sending him to waivers so that penalty is harsher. Sorry for the trouble

[heimer]

the Hawks fear a dangerous precedent will be set and can’t see a future enforcement of penalties going smoothly - which is very bad for the league

[heimer]

[ashes]

I’m not entirely versed on the timing of buyouts, but assuming NYK could in theory buy out Olowokandi and Pollard then sign 6 rookie FAs, losing JR Smith (a very good scoring guard) seems fitting

But that was just my thought process

[ashes]

the Hawks fear a dangerous precedent will be set and can’t see a future enforcement of penalties going smoothly - which is very bad for the league

This is the last there will be discussion from me when posting/enforcing HC. I will post a clear HC rule thread soon and will be including the reminder in every TC thread.

I will always listen to issues a GM may have dealing with the HC if that time comes, I just strongly prefer they be brought up ahead of time.

[Joe]

I definitely hear what folks are saying on the thread. I will just add that in addition to losing Smith, I think Nav paying the buyout cost so this isn't free HC relief is a step in the right direction and more penal than what he would have done if he were on the boards in the last couple days (e.g., just trading Smith for some vet mins to get to 12 guys). Not trying to undermine the ruling or anything like that, I very much defer to ashes on all rulings here and going forward. Just recognizing the feelings of other GMs here and suggesting this is an OK middle ground for this scenario.

[jwoo]

So I was sitting in a Dune screening for the whole afternoon and am just now sitting down and really unpacking everything. A lot of people texted me asking what I thought about what happened today, so I'm just writing this out here so as not to respond to a million people at length lol. Sorry it's long as fuck, it's unfortunately how my brain works as many of you can attest, it took me like an hour to think through this. Just my opinion here.

Ultimately I think the rules were broken and that Ashes' original decision on punishment should have just been respected. That's not to say that Matt can't offer up a defense of himself on the matter, of course, totally fair. And I heavily sympathize with Nav being super busy and real life is (debatably) more important than our league. But I think what Ashes says has to go, and I also think we are all perfectly capable of being proactive in managing these situations. Obviously the off-season timing has been a bit more indiscriminate this week, but I've just always thought we had to respect the 24 hours after TC thing. It's literally Ashes' job to enforce the rules, it's not an easy job, if we get hit with penalties we should just take them on the chin and move on. The hard cap rules are supposed to be drastic by design so that people don't even think about cutting it close. Sometimes shit happens. I thought he was super lenient on Chicago to begin with to be honest, and I don't have a full understanding of what's going on with the Knicks off the boards.

Having said that, again, I defer to Ashes on these decisions now and in the future, and I think no matter what we each think of the ruling here, we can all appreciate him being willing to listen in these situations. It's just kind of disappointing that we as a group couldn't accept the initial ruling and move on, which then puts him in this position. We all can agree that Ashes doesn't play favorites and doesn't target anyone or try to catch anyone, this is definitely the worst part of being the commish, need to keep the faith that he's an objective actor always and has the best intentions of SLN in mind.

The other thing going on here which Nick alluded to and I think someone has to say more directly, just so we can say it and move on, is that we have two O6 members being penalized, and we then had O6 members immediately coming to their defense, which then led to penalties being reduced (edit - for the Knicks, not for the Bulls, should have been more specific sorry it was a lot to try and process). (Again, I 2000% believe Ashes doesn't play favorites, so I'm ok with what he decided). I trust Matt and Nav to not be abusing the leeway we have as GMs. Although I am admittedly often the one at the forefront of debates involving how the league is run, I will just say clearly for the record that I don't think you guys are some cabal that's attempting to cheat all of us in a league we play for free lol. But I hope that everyone can acknowledge those optics being part of the problem. I'm sure nobody really wanted to outwardly say that in order to maintain Ubuntu, but it's better to just say what it is than let it fester, I am not aiming to start civil unrest here.

I feel like vibes have been mostly good lately with the league and I would like to keep that going, I am having a blast and I hope we all are. But just going to mention this — not personal or angry — I would call back to Merv getting hit with a penalty a few seasons ago from the 06 for his stupid AI posting thing, and receiving it without warning. (And just moving on from it, to his credit, though I tried to goad him into standing up for himself lol). While that was quite minor in the grand scheme and we all moved on, if we are going to call a spade a spade, I wish the opinions of those of us who tried to have Merv's back in that situation, both on the boards and privately (I think you all know that he's not a malicious actor trying to get one over on the league) would have been taken just as seriously in our attempts to push back on that particular punishment as the opinions defending Matt and Nav ultimately were by Ashes today. I think we can all acknowledge how this might look like a double standard (even though it's just a coincidence with bad optics, ultimately, lol).

Anyway, even though extenuating circumstances (on and off the court) played a role in the violations occurring and that unfortunately this became a debatable topic, I just hope that in the future we can all just agree that what Ashes says goes. Certainly not everyone is happy about this, and I hope other people feel comfortable voicing their own opinions here rather than just in group texts/via text, it's all very valid. I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself.

TLDR: I think ultimately we have to let the commish draw the lines where he sees fit, I'm good with that and I trust that Ashes will not allow for a bad precedent to exist, even though he bent a little bit because he is a nice guy who wants this league to remain healthy and fun.

Side note, this is so long, can I get some RP for it?