[vote requested] Rule Change Proposal: Modernizing the Lottery

[Matt]

I have bolded one of your assessments that I believe is based on a false premise. The purpose of flattening lottery odds is not designed to punish or reward anyone. It is to disincentivize being so abjectly horrible that a team is 3-45 through Day 65.

You said my assessment is based on a false premise, but this is literally exactly what I said - the rule disincentivizes being one of the 4 worst teams.

All in all, flattening the lotto odds is not remotely about team building strategy, it’s about getting rid of reasons to put out teams that would lose to NDL teams.

This is literally team building strategy? Right now there is benefit to putting out a horrible team, this rule softens that incentive, which affects team building - I don't understand why you're fighting me on this, we agree! The current meta for team building makes the deep tank a viable team building strategy, which is worse for the league. This rule makes that team building strategy less viable, so this rule changes team building strategy by definition (and changes it for the better! I voted for the rule!)

So yes, I think the sooner that we can disincentivize being the worst team in league history, the better.

Like I said before, if we're flouting an established league precedent for no other reason than impatience, I think we're making an extremely avoidable mistake. This is a good rule change that I am all for, but it's a big change with a lot of impact and I will continue to believe that it just flat out isn't fair to enact it this quickly until I hear an actual reason of why we'd do it in 2021. To be honest, I kinda don't even think 3 years is enough time, but we've anchored around that at this point so it is what it is. I think it should probably be more like 5 years.

P.S. in doing all these quotes I found out the Merv's user_id is 69, nice

[SoNicks]

I’m in favor of next year because at this point, tankers are playing the worst guys possible. There’s no point in evaluating about 7 teams in SLN cuz they have garbage players. Ashes takes all this time making interesting fringe roster, roll player types. These guys are getting lost to oblivion cuz the tanker life involves playing atrocious players. A lot of these weirdos aren’t even getting minutes. Tankers don’t make moves to get better. Only worse. That’s bad for the league and should end immediately.

I think this rule change is not some massive calculus adjustment to team building. In fact, it allows tankers the freedom to try different guys out without the worry that a couple wins will ruin their tank. Tankers still can tank and get top end talent.
There’s nothing in the rules making it so that they can’t continue to be the worst team ever. You just might get lotto unlucky which news flash, already happens. I think waiting 3-5 years is a bad idea if we’re gonna enact this because really these tankers can still be bad and get top 5 picks still and we’re just wasting time for the sake of a few tanking teams who gutted to get Zion and edwards.

people jumped on others for not having a real argument for next year vs 3-5 years. Well… I haven’t really seen an arguement for 3-5 years either besides it’s not fair to a couple teams. It’s slightly reduced odds at most. This isn’t some seismic shift.


Reason against : it isn’t fair to current teams that gutted themselves for the sake of a long fruitful tank

Reason for: it isn’t fair to ashes that he spends all this time on a draft file for half the players to fall into the void cuz tankers aren’t doing anything

[Matt]

You guys jumped on Merv for not having a real argument for next year vs 3-5 years. Well… I haven’t really seen an arguement for 3-5 years either besides it’s not fair to a couple teams.

Bro can you please stop sensationalizing everything? I didn't "jump" on anyone, I'm arguing a point of view. If I were to jump on someone, I would probably jump on how stupid the reasoning of "i haven't seen an argument besides the argument you made" is.

The main point I'm trying to get across is that there is a clear logical gap here - the point of the rule is to change behavior, yet the main argument I'm seeing to get this enacted sooner rather than later is "this shouldn't change the behavior too much". Which one is it? Is this so important and has such vast impact on the league that it has to be enacted as soon as possible, or is it such a trivial change that we shouldn't care how it impacts a portion of the league?

[Matt]

Reason against : it isn’t fair to current teams that gutted themselves for the sake of a long fruitful tank

Reason for: it isn’t fair to ashes that he spends all this time on a draft file for half the players to fall into the void cuz tankers aren’t doing anything

Again, the "reason for" is a reason to enact the rule, not a reason for why it should be enacted as soon as possible.

[SoNicks]

Matt the irony coming from you is palpable. You’re sensationalizing what i said as much as I sensationalized you “jumping on Merv”. That the only real reason you’re arguing for more time is like 2 gms so they can complete their “deep tank” plan they set out for seasons ago.



I vote to Enact it as soon as possible because any rule that changes this SLN tanking shit will make the league more fun. Gutting rosters should be penalized. A GM would be fired IRL for that behavior. Half the time this league prizes being close to real life, only until it’s inconvenient.

[SoNicks]

Reason against : it isn’t fair to current teams that gutted themselves for the sake of a long fruitful tank

Reason for: it isn’t fair to ashes that he spends all this time on a draft file for half the players to fall into the void cuz tankers aren’t doing anything

Again, the "reason for" is a reason to enact the rule, not a reason for why it should be enacted as soon as possible.

Again, deep tanking should be punished. Not rewarded.

[SoNicks]

Now I fully understand your POV.

These guys set out to make a tank and gutted everyone to get the best possible player in the draft. Your argument is they should have the chance to tank fully and complete their plan and anyone about to tank can plan accordingly. But that didn’t happen in IRL. They gave em 2 years for the change.

[Skillz]

Now I fully understand your POV.

These guys set out to make a tank and gutted everyone to get the best possible player in the draft. Your argument is they should have the chance to tank fully and complete their plan and anyone about to tank can plan accordingly. But that didn’t happen in IRL. They gave em 2 years for the change.

lol changing lottery odds was discussed for almost a decade in real life before changes were made

jwoo brought this up 3 days ago

[Joe]

Reason against : it isn’t fair to current teams that gutted themselves for the sake of a long fruitful tank

Reason for: it isn’t fair to ashes that he spends all this time on a draft file for half the players to fall into the void cuz tankers aren’t doing anything

Again, the "reason for" is a reason to enact the rule, not a reason for why it should be enacted as soon as possible.

Again, deep tanking should be punished. Not rewarded.

Yeah I mean this is basically exactly what I was saying is happening in my post. Punishing tankers for doing something that made sense under the old rules is inherently unfair and vindictive for no reason. You’ve been tanking for like 9 seasons, if this had been enacted the first season you blew it up, I think you would be singing a different tune, as you have reaped the benefits of the old rules for numerous drafts at this point. One season of difference 21 vs 22 doesn’t make any difference positive or negative for 80% of the teams, whereas it makes a big difference for a handful of teams that don’t deserve to be deliberately punished for doing something within the existing rules / accepted strategy.

[SoNicks]

Fair enough I’ll change my vote to 2 years in fairness to the current tankers

Also we in SLN have also talked about changes lotto odds and punishing tankers for almost a year irl

This is just the first time it’s been officially proposed. So let’s not say this is just coming out of the blue