FAILED - Proposal for SLN Job Term Limits

[Joe]

Okay why are people with jobs not open to bringing on others in the league to learn said jobs?

I wanna believe that a lot of this is about the grading system. The fact that its held down by O6 makes it seem more sheisty. Whether it is or isnt is always up for debate.

Something I proposed to Joe separate of this was that it might be a good idea to just have one additional person sit on the grading board and help with that process — I obviously don't think anyone is doing anything untoward, so let me make that super clear — but it does help whatever perception there is around one group of people controlling the entire flow of RP. I totally get why it's a bad idea to replace the graders (who know what they are doing and have a process) but if this is what one of the main gripes is, I think that is a pretty simple solve

I was actually in the process of posting something similar right before jwoo wrote this. I think institutional/historical knowledge of how the grading works is really important to maintain (which makes regular rotation a challenge), as is the continued control of RP inflation per Jesse's post (and having folks doing the grading that have themselves experienced a league destroyed by RP inflation is a critical piece of this). That said, we current graders are happy to add a non-O6 guy to the grading team if it means more camaraderie and happiness and Nirvana at the end of the day.

[pacers]

deleting my post, misread the direction of this convo and not worth the follow ups

[Jesse]

OMG dude....The small council and 06 are ironic names that were meant as jokes. It was a way, when the league started, to let everyone know which guys knew which guys. Since we all had "Trees."

For obvious reasons i now wish this moniker never existed.

[Joe]

Okay why are people with jobs not open to bringing on others in the league to learn said jobs?

I wanna believe that a lot of this is about the grading system. The fact that its held down by O6 makes it seem more sheisty. Whether it is or isnt is always up for debate.

The sentiment that graders are doing anything untoward, unfair or biased makes me pretty sad, and I definitely echo Jesse's post above - it's just a real bummer that people have fabricated and continue to proliferate this conspiracy narrative, and even if some people are joking, some people clearly think it's real. Particularly when it comes to grading, we put a ton of thought and effort into creating a template that is as objective as it can be, and we have been nothing but 100% transparent on how it works, offered unlimited appeals/regrades, and have made several rounds of changes in response to suggestions from the league (including the ones I spent a couple hours writing up yesterday!). You can go back to any grade on any article ever and check the record of how it was graded, and we look back at past rubrics to ensure that we're being consistent year over year with how we treat different types of articles. It's a lot of work and we don't take it lightly, and we certainly don't tilt the grades in favor of O6 guys or anyone else (to the contrary, we're SUPER conscious of this not happening and we will periodically ding our own articles for fear of them looking preferred) - if anyone can produce any evidence of that kind of bias, I will gladly turn my job over.

Hopefully adding someone to the team can help the situation, but I just wanted to share my thoughts here once because I don't think I or the other graders have previously. We disagree sometimes in this league, but I think we are all decent human beings and we do this thing for zero money and all fun! Let's have some faith!

[pacers]

OMG dude....The small council and 06 are ironic names that were meant as jokes. It was a way, when the league started, to let everyone know which guys knew which guys. Since we all had "Trees."

For obvious reasons i now wish this moniker never existed.

yeah, that's why i said i regret spending time on the post, i don't think this is a big deal, and our league is well run. but that's my assessment as to why you get the controversy and consternation

[Merv]

Also…maybe worth saying, maybe not…

A lot of these proposals are at least tangentially related to the RP system which I understand is frustrating to some. I get that some of us (mostly me?) can come off as fucking derpy and controlling when it comes to the “inflation” boogeyman and the RP rules. Totally get how the “trust me, this is what is best” response can wear thin in certain respects.

I will say that the league I started 15 years ago (!) - which some our friends here saw - had almost ALL of the rules that have been recently proposed. We had no RP trade cap or gross RP cap, we had rotating jobs and no consistency from article graders, which was then became so controversial that the simmer had to take over, we even had a luxury tax system that penalized the rich! Which was a proposal I saw on the boards yesterday. The system sucked over time. The league got to a point where it was impossible to win with a guard who didn’t have at least A- outside or a big with at least A- boards.

Many of the rules that seem arbitrary or silly are meant to be features not bugs. I am sure there are still many problems with them as they currently stand, but for the most part they have been thought out. And a lot of the proposed changes are exactly what we were running away from. So that may explain some of the “old man yells at cloud” nerdy tone you may hear from me at times.

Joe and I exchanged an ungodly amount of texts about this kind of stuff prior to his recent rule change post. He provided the best and clearest anti-RP inflation cases that I think isn’t stated nearly enough.

One of the biggest RP issues in their prior league was that the uber rich would push around the poor with their RP stacks and be able to dominate trades in a way that would ruin the league. Imagine someone having to trade their 3rd best player just because 1000 RP is too good to turn down but that 1000 RP is just a drop in the bucket to the rich fellow.

[Jesse]

Matt, Joe, Kipke, Nav, and I regularly sit down together on Sunday nights around the fire. The council, they say. Derek used to be in it, but we kicked him out b/c he makes so many bad trades. We discuss mysterious things. Each week we come up with ways to game the system!

[heimer]

Matt, Joe, Kipke, Nav, and I regularly sit down together on Sunday nights around the fire. The council, they say. Derek used to be in it, but we kicked him out b/c he makes so many bad trades. We discuss mysterious things. Each week we come up with ways to game the system!

[Jordo]

I think something we definitely dont do enough, can we all pat ourselves on the back for building something truly so fucking dope and keeping it going, successfully at that, for as long as we have? I know we argue and bicker sometimes but, thank you everyone for making this a better hobby than I could've ever dreamed of. This thing has gotten me through a breakup, raising a new puppy, and a death in the family. Im glad we're always looking for ways to improve the league but definitely take a beat to appreciate what we've accomplished so far. Love you boys!

[Merv]

Meanwhile Ashes logging on to bring us NDL TC